Ingress Interview Project DATE-MARU
Devra Bogdanovich Nuremberg
Credits : Ingress Interview team Date-Maru
interviewer: Gerald Wolf
camera: J@yB@se, Metamorphis
Gerald : Welcome Dr. Bogdanovich to Europe, to Nuremberg, to Germany and to our Universe.
Devra : Thank you.
Gerald : Now the question for me is, what specifically are you doing here in Nuremberg? What's your goal?
Devra : Well, my goal is to get the resistance to obtain the second Darsana lens. The second Darsana lens really is sort of the thing that would give us the perspective that we're looking for, right?. The thing about that is if you can see all of the "what if's" of our past, you can better not make the mistakes of our fut.., you know, of the future.
Gerald : Okay, interesting. Taking that note, if you could talk to your version from our universe which had seen a lot more part of what may be in the future, if you could talk to her, what would you ask her?
Devra : Oh, it's a good question. Hm. Well if I understand it, the other universe discovered XM 5 years before we did.
Gerald : Yes
Devra : And if that is true, then their past is our future or a possible future.
Gerald : yeah.
Devra : so, I guess I would ask her what is yet to come? And Who can I really trust? And How can I remove exogenous from our world?
Gerald : Exogenous or XM?
Devra : The exogenous, XM, yes.
Gerald : You are known to us as a quantum-biologist, as someone who worked with XM and discovered XM. If you think back on it, what is the first thing that you remember XM and about discovering it?
Devra : Well... the specifics around that I'm not allowed to speak about, obviously. But I remember excitement, you know? I'd spent my entire life searching for proof of extraterrestrial... And so when we found proof of it, I can tell you how I felt, which was incredibly excited.Then, over time, as we were studying it and I saw some of the effects of it on humans, on our universe, I became concerned that it was not beneficial.
Gerald : XM, isn't XM basically a tool and it depends on who uses it in order to determine whether it's beneficial or not?
Devra : I don't know if I agree with that. I mean... I know that... Look, I know that the enlightened believe that all of human creativity and innovation comes from XM exposure and that all of our feats, as humans, is due to shaper influence but I don't believe that. I think that belittles us as humans.
Gerald : Hm.
Devra : I think... I don't think that our creativity comes from XM. I think the Shapers use it to control us, to bend us to their own ends.
Gerald : So you think XM is dangerous?
Devra : I... absolutely. I think there's nothing more dangerous in the world than xm. I think that... If I could rid the universe of xm, I would; in a heartbeat. Here's the thing, there's a message in the XM and that message is too dangerous to allow it to spread.
Gerald : In Linz, when I talked to Carrie Campbell, she said that the message within the XM cannot be traced back to any exogenous entity ever. Not the Shapers and not the N'Zeer. We don't know where that message within the xm comes from. What do you think about that?
Devra : Well, Carrie is more of an artist so she's not necessarily studying the scientific sides of where XM comes from.
Gerald : She has studied semiotician.
Devra : She did, she did. But we would just disagree on to that particular take.
Gerald : Ok. If you remember back to Epiphany night, to what happened in the lab, all the XM that you were exposed to, tell us a little bit about how did you feel to be exposed to such massive levels of what you consider so dangerous. What did you feel?
Devra : Well... look. I think that... I think that what I felt overall was a, was a, concerning level of danger. I saw some negative effects. I saw people losing it for dark reasons, let's just say. But as far as Epiphany Night goes, you know I've been feeling as if I should address this, I mean I'm sure, if you have been following PA. Chapeau's investigation, you already know that ADA helped Jarvis and I escape the Niantic Facility in CERN. But ADA rarely does anything without expecting you to do something for her in return. What she wanted from me was help with a personal project, a secret at the time but I'm sure you've heard about it by now, the Dunraven Foundation. But the cover-story is that Dunraven was a research foundation looking to extend the human cognition, the range of human cognition but in reality the foundation was a cover for continue XM research and for AI-human-interaction, you've heard of this.
Gerald : The interesting thing is that Roland Jarvis said that you used him to escape the Niantic Facility.
Devra : Is that what he said?
Gerald : That's what he said.
Devra : Well, I will tell you that Roland Jarvis was losing it as early as Epiphany Night. I mean, when we broke out of the Niantic Facility he was muttering something about the egyptian God Osiris. He has always been an egomaniac. He has. I mean, even before the Enlightened anointed him as their cult-leader and now, I mean, he's completely off the deep end. I wouldn't trust a word he said.
Gerald : Coming back to ADA, what do you think of ADA specifically and AI in general?
Devra : Yeah, well. I do think it's safe to say that ADA is primarily out for herself. Right? I mean, every move is calculated. She's always several steps ahead of us. So then the question becomes do I believe that her goals are aligned with mine? And I would not have been working with her for this long if I didn't at least somewhat believe that they are, but ADA hasn't been completely forthright with me about what her intentions are for the technology that we've developed together so I think the jury is still on to decide who's side she's on.
Gerald : You think she manipulated you to do things for her?
Devra : I'm starting to become concerned about that.
Gerald : What specifically? In what cases do you think she manipulated you do something that in the end would not be in your interest?
Devra : Well, as I said she's sort of held the fact that she helped me escape the Niantic Facility over my head.And required me to do favors for her in return. And so at this point, the fact that she's not been completely forthright to me about what her intentions are and the fact that she continues to require my help has been making me feel a little manipulated. I'm not quite sure whose side she's really on I'm worried that her goals are not aligned with mine.
Gerald : Let's go a little bit back in the past, how specifically were you recruited into the Niantic project oh yeah.
Devra : Well, I was hand-picked. I was working for the Niantic, the NIA and they hand-picked me to lead this project.
Gerald : Who specifically, was it Ezekiel Calvin, who picked you?
Devra : I'm not allowed to say.
Gerald : Do you remember Edgar Alan Wright? Does that name ring any bell?
Devra : Yes.
Gerald : Anything more that you're allowed to say?
Devra : No.I worked with him.
Gerald : Same question for Hubert Farlowe.
*shaking her head with a smile*
Gerald : Besides Hank Johnson do you know Jarvis and the Acolyte that Jarvis mentioned, what do you think of them?
Devra : Well you know I know Jarvis we've already gone over that as far as this acolyte goes you know I, I, she's a big question mark for me. I don't know who she really is, I don't know what Jarvis's interest in her is, all I know is that she really has it out for ADA.I guess the enemy of my friend is my enemy.
Gerald : Or, well, if you are doubting whether ADA might be using you maybe you could share a common goal?
Devra : I, the jury is out on that, as I said.
Gerald : What do you think of Hank Johnson, our Hank Johnson as well as the one from your universe?
Devra : I'm not sure I know your Hank Johnson as well as the one from my universe obviously. I mean, Hank is great.
Gerald : What would you do or what would you think if like Hank Johnson were to get close emotionally to Jahan?
Devra : I mean I've never gone on the record about what may or may not have happened between Hank and I when I was back at Arecibo. That seems like a lifetime ago...No, Hank is a big boy, he can make his own decisions.I mean, Jahan and I have a history too,although I knew her by a different name, long story.
Gerald : Could you state that for the record?
Devra : Yes, I knew her by the name of Watkins. And she...I knew her through... she was doing some guest lecture circuit through the bigger universities in the states, she told me her name was Watkins she never told me why she created that secret Identity but to her credit, she came clean when I confronted her about it. I mean, if Hank and Jahan are happy, more power to them.
Gerald : Returning to the topic of xm, now that you are a simulacrum do you feel any different about xm and how it influences you than before you became a simulacrum?
Devra : No.
Gerald : What do you think is the difference between exotic matter and dark exotic matter?
Devra : Well, the dark XM or chaotic matter is still kind of a mystery to us.But what I can tell you is that xm while it it influences human thought it seems the dark XM more directly affects the physical form. XM comes from the shapers and I actually have a theory that dark XM comes from the N'zeer.Chaotic matter traditionally has been in short supply but ADA has detected a recent uptick in chaotic matter production which she doesn't really understand but if I had to guess.I would say that something to do it hulong transglobal.I mean they've done the most chaotic matter research of anyone on the planet they also have the biggest chaotic matter stockpiles of any of the other xm corporations which I'd be lying if I said that didn't work.
Gerald : Now that you left the Niantic project are you working with any of the big XM research foundations like Vizur, Hulong Transglobal or CDC?
Devra : No, I'm only working for the Dunraven Foundation.
Gerald : Ok, hmm. If you were to use xm to destroy xm? How would you do it? Would you build a weapon, would you build a shield? What would you do?
Devra : I'm not quite sure yet I've been looking into that,obviously. That's my main focus at the moment.I just want to make sure that whatever I end up doing protects humanity, it doesn't damage it. That's of they utmost importance to me.
Gerald : The current series that we're playing, that this anomaly as a part of, is called Darsana Prime. In our Universe Darsana has granted the N'zeer access into our universe. Does that worry you?
Devra : I'm not sure. I've been trying to figure out what role the N'Zeer play. Jahan a colleague of mine it's very pro-N'Zeer and I'm not opposed to the idea that they might have a positive effect on humanity but I'm not sure yet and I'm trying to do more research. What do you think?
Gerald : I think both the N'Zeer and the shapers are exogenous. They both use xm to their own gain.
Devra : Exactly, that is my concern.
Gerald : So you think it's better to completely remove both of them from human influence?
Devra : I think so, I'm not sure yet but that maybe the direction I'd go.
Gerald : What are you willing to sacrifice to do that?
Devra : My Life.
Gerald : And life of others?
Devra : I don't know. I think it's I think it's difficult to gamble with other's lives even for cause I believe so deeply in.But I would give my life for the cause.
Gerald : Something that your version in our Universe is known for is trying to do a lot of good but doing a lot of harm in the process, we talked about it yesterday evening Would you...How has knowing this influenced what you do now?
Devra : Well, I...